Lego Mindstorms NXT 2.0 - Worth the $?

[cookiemonstr69]

Hello all!

My 12-year old twin sons are Lego maniacs, and have been invited by their teacher to represent their grade and participate in a Lego Mindstorm build-off with other local schools. Their team will be provided with a kit (presumably to use @ school for the competition), and I was wondering if I should buy one for them to practice at home.

Is it worth the money? Has anyone bought the set and regretted spending $279.99 for it?

[dr_spock]

My son had one. He lost interest after a few months, so I have it now. No regrets.

[dgoodfellow]

where in canada have you found one for $279? cheapest I have found is $299 plus taxes in Canada.

[Legobrandon]

Can be found on Costco.ca for $299 plus free shipping. But it is currently $279 on Amazon.com. http://www.amazon.com/LEGO-4544091-Mind ... mindstorms" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Neo]

Hello all!

My 12-year old twin sons are Lego maniacs, and have been invited by their teacher to represent their grade and participate in a Lego Mindstorm build-off with other local schools. Their team will be provided with a kit (presumably to use @ school for the competition), and I was wondering if I should buy one for them to practice at home.

Is it worth the money? Has anyone bought the set and regretted spending $279.99 for it?

short answer - No. Atleast Not right away.

long answer - programming a NXT block is easy but designing and building a robot or a numerical control device to do anything interesting requires expert mechanical skills using the Lego Technic System of gears and other actuator devices - this turns out to be the biggest stumbling blocks for most kids in Robotics- hence most kids are best off learning Robotics in a group from an experience lego builder or teacher. IMHO learning Mindstorm NXT is more difficult than the original Mindstore RIS 1.0 2.0 which relied more on bricks. The Lego NXt/ technics uses beams/bars/connector pins instead of bricks. The cheapest and first solution to determine if your kids can deal with this is ...

Lego Crazy Action Contraptions Kit by Klutz MSRP = $22

If they have any difficultly with the above - then they'll need a experienced lego builder or teacher if they want to proceed any further.

If your kids are self motivated and show some talent/skill then
your kids should download (or buy a hard copy of) the following book on how to use Lego Technic Gears

http://www.isogawastudio.co.jp/legostud ... nomaki/en/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(the above link is the first volume of a three volume set)

If the Robotics class/FLL Competition group lacks Mindstorm Textbooks _ I suggest that you get your kids one of their liking after reviewing a few at the local bookstore or at the local public library. The First Lego League Competitions require kids to build several robots using a variety of actuators and sensors. They have a limited time to get the work done so engineering team work (spirit de corp) is essential. A FLL team needs to meet about every week or so - so the most important thing a parent can provide is a meeting place for about a dozen kids to converge on... LOL. you gotta love kids alot..


Teaching kids how to use gears, motors, and electricity with a Lego technic kits is almost as costly as the Mindstorm system itself. The best ones IMHO is the Excavator, the 4x4 crawler, and the Unimog - but all of them are expensive(+$200) and are very advance designs - requiring alot of work to build. You have to ask your kids - are you up to this challenge? Can you Prove to me you can do this? O and btw those Lego education add-on kits for Mindstorm are pretty expensive too ( there's a renewable energy kit and a pneumatic kit and a Themometer kit).

Is there an alternative - yes - Arduino - but its not much cheaper and it requires more technical savvy and it cannot be used in a FLL competition arena! The original Arudino is not a very powerful CPu but the newer (next gen ) of Arduino is. Moreover, the Arduino computers are not as durable as the Lego Mindstorm NXT/RIS brick/computer.

disclosure: I have a Mindstorm NXT kit and I have built a few models using it but I'm not an expert at it.

[melsig]

[
If your kids are self motivated and show some talent/skill then
your kids should download (or buy a hard copy of) the following book on how to use Lego Technic Gears

http://www.isogawastudio.co.jp/legostud ... nomaki/en/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(the above link is the first volume of a three volume set)

First of all, congrats to your sons, legomonstr69, for being chosen to represent their school!

I read this topic with great interest, as I have a young son who's showing some interest in this area - he whipped through the Crazy Action Contraptions book mostly on his own last year in one day, and we ended up buying the LEGO Education WeDo Robotics Kit (which I actually found NIP on shopgoodwill at a great price, of all things) for him, which was been a good resource for simple projects (mostly when my mechanical engineer husband has a chance to work with him on it).

Thank you for the link to those books, Neo - it seems that would be a good way to go for us, too. Despite the whole Crazy Action Contraptions obsession, we've largely ignored Technic. My son is still young enough that he has some strength issues and has trouble fitting the pieces together. After your comments, though, it seems it may be worthwhile to get a few sets, let him read the instructions and have him use us as manual labor, when he has trouble with the pieces himself. Do you recommend any particular sets to start? (I mean, for someone who's never put together a Technic set? - I note your mention of the Unimog etc.)

[Neo]

Melsig - If you get your son something too hard he'll give up in frustration if he's alone - however, if your hubby is a mech engineer and can be there to provide assistance when your son really needs the help - that unto itself is priceless.

Most of l the instructions forTechnic sets are downloadable from Lego.com - and from there you can see some of the complexity - for example, how to make a pneumatically control arm or creating a Differential Axle. You can can also download instruction sets from brickset.com too. For example, for the Excavator

http://www.brickset.com/detail/?set=8043-1#Instructions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Excavator and the Unimog and the 4x4 crawler are very advance and I'd pick something simplier for your young son just to see if its his thingy ... maybe something like the Lego 9391 crane...

http://technic.lego.com/en-us/Products/ ... .aspx#9391" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The instructions are downloadable by right clicking on the right hand button "building instruction"

http://technic.lego.com/en-us/BuildingI ... Group.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you got a Lego Education WeDo Robotics Kits NIP at a shopgoodwill - you've hit the jackpot - it is a very rare kit design for Universities and High Schools (it is basically an advanced version of the Mindstorm NXT 2.0). I find it very strange that you found one at a shopgoodwill store - it would fetch a pretty penny on bricklink.com.... Unfortunately the only way to get additional advance parts for the Lego WeDo Robotic Kits is to buy it via Legoeducation.us ( which basically NEVER has a sale and volume discounts either don't exist or suck) - or use third party Robotics parts. The only way to get a discount from Legoeducation.us is to get a discount is to apply and wind an educational grant or get a promo code discount via the First Lego League Competition Events/groups - aaahh being a teacher helps.

[melsig]

The Excavator and the Unimog and the 4x4 crawler are very advance and I'd pick something simplier for your young son just to see if its his thingy ... maybe something like the Lego 9391 crane...

http://technic.lego.com/en-us/Products/ ... .aspx#9391" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The instructions are downloadable by right clicking on the right hand button "building instruction"

http://technic.lego.com/en-us/BuildingI ... Group.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you got a Lego Education WeDo Robotics Kits NIP at a shopgoodwill - you've hit the jackpot - it is a very rare kit design for Universities and High Schools (it is basically an advanced version of the Mindstorm NXT 2.0). I find it very strange that you found one at a shopgoodwill store - it would fetch a pretty penny on bricklink.com....

Thank you so much, Neo - I will definitely take a look at 9391 and the instructions. It's great when my husband has time to sit with my son to do these projects, but sometimes work gets in the way, if you know what I mean. Since our son appears interested, we definitely want him to run with it, though.

We have no idea where that WeDo Robotics kit came from - it showed up on the shopgoodwill.com website last fall. We still paid a decent amount, but I feel we still got very lucky - the Goodwill store that put it up for auction mis-priced it. They said it had a retail value of $129.95, but it included the software and activity pack, so it was really closer to $220. My husband and I felt it was worth the risk of it not actually being NIP and picked it up for about $135 - but when it arrived, everything was still sealed and brand new. I don't expect we'll get that lucky again. Anyway, I didn't realize it's considered more advanced than Mindstorm NXT 2.0. My husband has been going through it, and doing simple projects with our son. He seems engaged by it, but of course is not at the age/level where he can self-start with the kit.

Thanks again for all of the help.

[Neo]

melsig - whoops I made a mistake :-(

Wedo is for elementary school kids. it's brick based rather than technic based and is similar to the old Lego RIS 1/2 systems

http://www.legoeducation.us/eng/product ... n_set/2096" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I got it mixed up with (9_9) duh!

The Lego Mindstorm TETRIX extension kits.

The main advantage to WeDo is you can drive all the component via the USB port of your computer.
you can buy STEM course work for the kit at legoeducation.us at...


http://www.legoeducation.us/eng/charact ... ion%20WeDo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry about that...

Walter

[melsig]

melsig - whoops I made a mistake :-(

Wedo is for elementary school kids. it's brick based rather than technic based and is similar to the old Lego RIS 1/2 systems

http://www.legoeducation.us/eng/product ... n_set/2096" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I got it mixed up with (9_9) duh!

The Lego Mindstorm TETRIX extension kits.

The main advantage to WeDo is you can drive all the component via the USB port of your computer.
you can buy STEM course work for the kit at legoeducation.us at...

Oh, no problem. We still like it.

http://www.legoeducation.us/eng/charact ... ion%20WeDo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry about that...

Walter

[Neo]

The WeDo doesn't use a battery pack which maybe a safety or a operational cost concern for some.

The Lego educational STEM course work for the WeDo appears to be geared to 1st to 3rd graders.

The brick style Lego Technic system used by the WeDo is more durable, safer, and easier to use than the beam-pin-bar Lego Technic system. I know some will give me grief for saying this but in my experience -- san the electric motors, gears, and belts -- I've had non-moving Lego Technic parts go bad on me but sofar the non-moving brick style Lego Technic parts have held up.

[melsig]

The WeDo doesn't use a battery pack which maybe a safety or a operational cost concern for some.

The Lego educational STEM course work for the WeDo appears to be geared to 1st to 3rd graders.

The brick style Lego Technic system used by the WeDo is more durable, safer, and easier to use than the beam-pin-bar Lego Technic system. I know some will give me grief for saying this but in my experience -- san the electric motors, gears, and belts -- I've had non-moving Lego Technic parts go bad on me but sofar the non-moving brick style Lego Technic parts have held up.

Yes, my son is 6, so we figured WeDo was the way to go - although the special math/science program he participates in doesn't offer WeDo Robotics courses until the 3rd grade level, which was disappointing. Interesting about the beam-pin-bar issues. Those are what he really grapples with trying to fit together properly right now, so it does seem in part to be an age thing. Still, it's exciting to have these options available, especially when one's kid is already LEGO-obsessed.

[Neo]

The WeDo doesn't use a battery pack which maybe a safety or a operational cost concern for some.

The Lego educational STEM course work for the WeDo appears to be geared to 1st to 3rd graders.

The brick style Lego Technic system used by the WeDo is more durable, safer, and easier to use than the beam-pin-bar Lego Technic system. I know some will give me grief for saying this but in my experience -- san the electric motors, gears, and belts -- I've had non-moving Lego Technic parts go bad on me but sofar the non-moving brick style Lego Technic parts have held up.

Yes, my son is 6, so we figured WeDo was the way to go - although the special math/science program he participates in doesn't offer WeDo Robotics courses until the 3rd grade level, which was disappointing. Interesting about the beam-pin-bar issues. Those are what he really grapples with trying to fit together properly right now, so it does seem in part to be an age thing. Still, it's exciting to have these options available, especially when one's kid is already LEGO-obsessed.

Lego Education does have Pre-School and Kindergarten STEM course work too.
Usually - at 6 - math is more about the basic four operations and knowing geometric shapes.
Some teachers do go further - if you are interested look up Dr Seymour Papert at

http://www.papert.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With respect to technic pins - I have problems pulling them out too - I am a grown man!

No - it's not him - it is the nature of a beam-pin-bar construction system.

I have a pair of needle nose plier for such an emergency.

There are times when you may need a special tool - the AAA battery pack which is used by the Lego train sets requires a Jeweler's screw driver to open. I also have a voltmeter to check if the batteries are still good.

[melsig]

Lego Education does have Pre-School and Kindergarten STEM course work too.
Usually - at 6 - math is more about the basic four operations and knowing geometric shapes.
Some teachers do go further - if you are interested look up Dr Seymour Papert at

http://www.papert.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With respect to technic pins - I have problems pulling them out too - I am a grown man!

No - it's not him - it is the nature of a beam-pin-bar construction system.

I have a pair of needle nose plier for such an emergency.

There are times when you may need a special tool - the AAA battery pack which is used by the Lego train sets requires a Jeweler's screw driver to open. I also have a voltmeter to check if the batteries are still good.

Interesting link - we'll have to check out that mamamedia site.

Well, between my husband and myself, we'd be able to handle the jeweler's screw driver and the voltmeter. I make jewelry as a hobby, so I'm constantly using my own needle nose pliers to get LEGO pieces apart, too!