63 year old AFOL denied entry into Legoland at Vaughan Mills

[wyldjedi]

One thing I just realized, Legolands and LDC's (Lego Discovery Center) are different. LDC's are much more of a short tour with groups herded through and Legolands are more of a theme park. It sounds like the 63 yr old went to an LDC. Both places could have security risks, but what entertainment place doesn't? If anything LDC's are safer because you have a tour guide (I think) and are in small groups close together.

[peanut]

After reading the article again I'm thinking that TLG probably looks at the loss of business from denying solo adults as worth it to keep the corporate image squeaky clean. It would be a huge hit if a kid was abducted at one of their attractions. An adult with a kid would seem to be highly unlikely to do something crazy. Probably saves them a ton on security. Even so I still find they initial reaction to be unacceptable. Only once it went public did they care which while all too common these days is still a load of hog wash.

[Deathleech]

Aren't kids required to have an adult present with them when they enter the park? It's not like they are going in alone, or being left alone and are totally vulnerable to being snatched up by a pedo? This is just extra security and quite frankly I think it's a little much. I mean other theme parks already mentioned, such as Disney, do not have these ridiculous rules. Neither do other public places like community swimming pools which are mostly full of younger kids. Why does Lego feel the need to have this extra security measure that denies a segment of fans?

At the very least I think Lego should designate a certain day or time each week to let adults into their theme parks. I know they have adult night, but it sounds like it is fairly random making it hard for people to plan around or know when it's coming. If they had 5-8 PM every Thursday night as "adult time" or something it might help.

[auralgami]

I realize he claimed he is not "internet saavy", but he guy must have a phone right? Wouldn't you call to find out details before making the long drive?

Except that you may not think about such an absurd rule being in place. "Gee, maybe I should call ahead to see if I will be denied entry because I am an adult who is able to pay the admission fee." I have actually heard of this before, and I don't know if I would have remembered.

Whether it's "mainly for kids" or not, whether it's a good idea or not, it is counter-intuitive. As an adult, I generally do not think that I'll be denied entry someplace because I don't have a child with me. Or that as an adult, I'd be restricted to specific hours on one night every three months.

Even if you think it's a good policy, couldn't the same goal be accomplished some other way, that doesn't involve excluding a large number of people who have done nothing wrong? Chuck E. Cheese uses matching hand stamps, or you could use bracelets or something. It's not that hard or expensive.

[guavamnia]

I don't believe it's all about "protecting kids from pedos". It's more "protecting kids from a bad experience". I have taken my family to the LDC in Kansas City two times now, and each time I appreciate that it's only adults with kids. The reason is because an AFOL is more likely to stay and hog the lego bins and areas as they have a much longer attention span and take up more standing space than a couple of kids. They wouldn't even need to be rude to anyone, or they could be even going out of their way to accommodate the kids, but an adult just takes up more of the resources and space that should be for the kids. I appreciate this, and am glad they do it. It's to protect kids from having adults in their space the same way that adults want to do activities in places without kids getting in their way. It's how the LDCs are planned, it's how they are marketed (to kids) and it says it all over their flyers, website, and ordering page. You can't go to order the tickets online without seeing the note that adults MUST have children with them at least two or three times. The only way a person could go there without truly knowing they don't allow childless adults in is if someone were to never read a flyer or the website.

And not knowing from the website you visited isn't because aren't internet savvy; if you are able to order the tickets online, you can read. The skill required to see that it's only adults with kids is reading, not a degree in computer science.

That said, the manager still needed to do the courtesy of coming out and telling the man their policy, apologizing for the inconvenience, refunding his tickets, and advising him of their next AFOL night. If he wanted to comp the man tickets to that night, that would be above and beyond, but it's not the LDC's, the manager's, or any LDC employee's fault the man drove so far to go there. But it IS the manager's job to respect his customers. This man paid for a ticket, he is a customer, and is deserving of respect.

I think a lot of people are getting all bothered by this rule because they feel sympathy for the elderly man with cancer. I feel bad that he has cancer, but cancer doesn't give people the right to do whatever they want and ignore private businesses' clearly stated terms and policies. Just like with anywhere else, if they made an exception for this man, they would have to for everyone. They could be sued for allowing him in and not someone else because they would be "discriminating". If the man had been a healthy 30 year old without kids who had driven the same distance, would we really be angry at Merlin Entertainment Group? Would this even be news on an otherwise very slow news day?

[vynsane]

Again, to clarify - since it seems people are using LEGOLAND Parks, LEGOLAND Discovery Centers (LDCs) and The LEGO Group (TLG) interchangeably:

LEGOLAND Parks and Discovery Centers are NOT owned and operated by The LEGO Group (TLG).


They are owned and operated by Merlin Entertainments Group. The only bearing this has on TLG is that they license the name of the products to Merlin, so it does reflect badly on them, but they are not responsible for this incident NOR (to my knowledge) the policy that sparked it.

LEGOLAND Parks do NOT impose the same restrictions requiring adults to be accompanied by children. This policy is for LEGOLAND Discovery Centers ONLY.

Comparing apples to apples, LEGOLAND Parks are comparable Disney World and Disneyland, and we can see that their policies are fairly comparable. It's unfair to compare an LDC to Disney World, there's just no similarity at all. There is no analogous Disney offering like LEGOLAND Discovery Centers. If there were, it's entirely possible that they would enact something similar to the policy in question.

I've been to the Discovery Center on adult night. Its play area is open and geared towards kids. It was pretty crazy when the adults were competing against each others for parts in the build contest. Little kids probably wouldn't stand a chance against me grabbing all the good parts quickly for my build.

This is a good point. I don't know where everyone jumped on the assumption that the policy is to protect children from predators, other than the kind that take all the good pieces!

At the very least I think Lego should designate a certain day or time each week to let adults into their theme parks. I know they have adult night, but it sounds like it is fairly random making it hard for people to plan around or know when it's coming. If they had 5-8 PM every Thursday night as "adult time" or something it might help.

They do! The theme of the next AFOL event at the Westchester, NY location is a LEGO Luau! I'm pretty sure these are once a month or so, so it's not as often as you suggest - but it's still something. The article even stated that the gentleman and his daughter were invited back for the next AFOL event.

[atmail35]

That said, the manager still needed to do the courtesy of coming out and telling the man their policy, apologizing for the inconvenience, refunding his tickets, and advising him of their next AFOL night. If he wanted to comp the man tickets to that night, that would be above and beyond, but it's not the LDC's, the manager's, or any LDC employee's fault the man drove so far to go there. But it IS the manager's job to respect his customers. This man paid for a ticket, he is a customer, and is deserving of respect.

I think a lot of people are getting all bothered by this rule because they feel sympathy for the elderly man with cancer. I feel bad that he has cancer, but cancer doesn't give people the right to do whatever they want and ignore private businesses' clearly stated terms and policies. Just like with anywhere else, if they made an exception for this man, they would have to for everyone. They could be sued for allowing him in and not someone else because they would be "discriminating". If the man had been a healthy 30 year old without kids who had driven the same distance, would we really be angry at Merlin Entertainment Group? Would this even be news on an otherwise very slow news day?

I think you said this very well...I totally agree. Whether we like the rule or not, exceptions can lead to a slippery slope.

[SpaceNinjaDino]

I'm actually shocked myself. My ex-girlfriend and I discussed going to Legoland several times, and never did we think we needed a kid. I would have found myself in the same situation. I'll have to check out "adult night."

[crewser]

Again, to clarify - since it seems people are using LEGOLAND Parks, LEGOLAND Discovery Centers (LDCs) and The LEGO Group (TLG) interchangeably:

LEGOLAND Parks and Discovery Centers are NOT owned and operated by The LEGO Group (TLG).


They are owned and operated by Merlin Entertainments Group. The only bearing this has on TLG is that they license the name of the products to Merlin, so it does reflect badly on them, but they are not responsible for this incident NOR (to my knowledge) the policy that sparked it.

I have been to the mall where this Discovery Center (DC) is located. Before going I even looked at their website, and I never did read that there is an age restriction to visit the DC. I did go there with the idea of getting an annual membership to save 10% on purchases in the store. I even browsed in the store that is located inside the same area right next to the entrance to the DC. The store is very similar to a Lego Store, right down to the Pick a Brick wall. It was only when I was paying for my purchases, that I found out that this Lego Store was not a Lego Store so I could not use my VIP card. I am not sure if Merlin is doing this on purpose to fool consumers, but it should be made clearer than having to wait for a clerk tell you aren't in a real Lego Store even though they look like one. So with the knowledge that this was not a Lego entity, I passed on the idea of an annual pass. I never did see any signs in the DC area stating an age restriction either.

I will now wait for an AFOL night there before I visit again. Thanks for pointing this out guys (gals), that they do hold them.

[dr_spock]

The Lego Discovery Center at Vaughan Mill has a flyer in today's Toronto Star Saturday newspaper. In the back of the flyer under useful information, it states the adult policy for the attractions.

[kbsig106]

Just got back from Legoland Florida, saw both groups of just adults and combos and just kids (large summer camp groups). There are height minimums and height maximums and this could keep most adults off of a kid specific ride or activity. The park was the old Cypress Gardens park and has rides geared for all ages. If they were to start turning back adults w/o kids from entering the 150 acre park, I would be concerned about going back. I had about as much fun or more than my two kids and I will say there is room for improvement. But watching Emma and Mia talk to a staff member about what he did last night was not very "Legoish"...

[vynsane]

^ Again, that's a LEGOLAND Park, not a LEGOLAND Discovery Center. The experience is vastly different between the two, and thusly the park does not have the same policy as the LDC.

[auralgami]

I think a lot of people are getting all bothered by this rule because they feel sympathy for the elderly man with cancer. I feel bad that he has cancer, but cancer doesn't give people the right to do whatever they want and ignore private businesses' clearly stated terms and policies. Just like with anywhere else, if they made an exception for this man, they would have to for everyone. They could be sued for allowing him in and not someone else because they would be "discriminating". If the man had been a healthy 30 year old without kids who had driven the same distance, would we really be angry at Merlin Entertainment Group? Would this even be news on an otherwise very slow news day?

To me, the cancer part never entered into the equation. Elderly, yes, because if you have an elderly relative and have seen them try to use the Internet, you'd understand. (Some old folks are quite sharp and capable at online things, and others are...not. Really not.) I could see my own mother as well as a good number of her friends making the same or similar mistake, or not understanding/believing the restriction.

And, as for lawsuits, they could be sued for not letting him in. They are discriminating. People without kids can't get in. That's an entire class of people that can't get in during regular business hours.

Should he be allowed to "ignore private businesses' clearly stated terms and policies"? That depends if you think the policy is good, just, and legal. Whatever you think of the first two, on that last one, I'm not sure. Businesses don't have "the right to do whatever they want" either, even if there are some really compelling reasons for the policy.

[kbsig106]

^ Again, that's a LEGOLAND Park, not a LEGOLAND Discovery Center. The experience is vastly different between the two, and thusly the park does not have the same policy as the LDC.

I'm just saying IF this started happening at a Park, I would have an issue. We bought annual passes that allow us to get in to a LDC for free. Later this year, we're planning on visiting the one in Atlanta so I can understand a little more about LDC product w/ my kids.

[atmail35]

So I looked on the website for the LDC, yes the man said he was not "internet" saavy. However it is listed with one click of the mouse from the home page (under "plan your visit")

http://www.legolanddiscoverycentre.ca/t ... visit.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Plan your visit


The LEGOLAND® Discovery Centre is a world of entertainment, colour and creativity for families with children aged 3-10. We offer a wealth of attractions, two rides, 4D cinema and more. We recommend a typical visit takes 2-3 hours, but you are welcome to stay as long as you like.

Please note: Adults must be accompanied by a child to visit the LEGOLAND Discovery Centre.

It states, for families with children aged 3-10. I suppose the man could argue he was with his child, who was not 3-10, but I think that is a stretch. LDC could make it more clear here by saying "all adults must be accompanied by a child aged 3-10." On the purchase ticket page it does define a child as aged 3-12.

I wish someone had a photo of the flyer he was looking at since he admitted he did not look at the website. Maybe an attorney can weigh in to determine if it is discrimination or not per Canadian laws.

And I don't think they will restrict child-free adults from the California or Florida LEGOLAND because those are meant for people of all ages.

[drtabo]

This has national lampoons vacation all over it... All we need is Clark and a big moose.

National Lampoon's Vacation: The Canadian LEGO adventure!

[Rook]

Is it weird when he said this was lifelong dream that he only had, "He now has around 75 sets, comprising about 50,000 pieces of Lego." I think my last MOC was close that. That being said it be cool if Lego Discovery Centre would have rented a limo and given him the VIP treatment that following Wednesday night for Adults Only Night.